Israel & Palästina (Sammelthread)

Zitat von Wemir

Der Grund, warum das aufgegriffen wurde, ist vielleicht dieses Video, das Fahrzeugswracks von dem Musikfestival zeigt, die aufgereiht wurden:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1T51_iroHo

Viele davon sind verbrannt. Die Vermutung ist, dass sie von den Kampfhubschraubern angegriffen wurden.

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https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-774511

Zitat

This is why Israel plans to bury hundreds of cars, with ashes and blood stains

To preserve the sanctity of those murdered by Hamas, for the first time since the establishment of the state, they decided to bury the vehicles.

Due to the lack of body parts or remains of many of those killed in the October 7 Hamas massacre, the ZAKA has recommended burying the cars of those who were killed in them.

Zitat

He explained that Rabbi Yaakov Roza, the rabbinic authority of ZAKA, and the most highly esteemed halachic figure in Israel concerning proper burial, “raised a critical question regarding the disposal of vehicles after they have undergone cleaning,” after the massacre, where hundreds were killed or were burned alive in vehicles.

Zitat

In order to save space and be as environment-friendly as possible, Hasid explained that the cars may be shredded before being buried. “The underlying rationale behind this initiative is to maximize space efficiency by compacting the existing vehicles.

Vielleicht ist es Trauerbewältigung, vielleicht aber auch Beweismittelvernichtung.

Zitat von Wemir

Habe es jetzt noch nicht bestätigt gefunden, aber ein Neffe von Eisenkot soll auch in Gasa gestorben sein:

https://english.almayadeen.net…lled-in-gaza-in-staged-tu

Zitat

Israeli media outlets also reported on the killing of Maor Cohen, the nephew of Gadi Eizenkot.

Zitat von Wemir

Ich suche mal auf Hebräisch.

Ergänzung: Also finde nur Erwähnungen des Sohns. Vielleicht stellt sich das als falsch heraus.

Das sollte das israelische Medium sein:

https://www.yomyom.net/showcat.asp?eid=3059&cid=1

Zitat

בלתי נתפס: אסון נוסף במשפחת השר איזנקוט

בן אילת, מאור מאיר כהן איזנקוט (19), חייל בשירות סדיר, נהרג היום בקרבות בעזה ● כהן, הוא בנה של שרון איזנקוט, אחותו של חבר הקבינט המצומצם והרמטכ''ל לשעבר, גדי איזנקוט, שבנו גל איזנקוט נהרג אמש בע...

Via Google Translate:

Zitat

Unfassbar: eine weitere Katastrophe in der Familie von Minister Eisenkot

Sohn von Eilat, Maor Meir Cohen Eisenkot (19), ein Soldat im regulären Dienst, wurde heute bei den Kämpfen in Gaza getötet. ● Cohen ist der Sohn von Sharon Eisenkot, der Schwester des Kabinettsmitglieds und ehemaligen Stabschefs Gadi Eisenkot , dessen Sohn Gal Eisenkot letzte Nacht in... getötet wurde.

Destroying hearts and minds oder so ...

https://twitter.com/walidfreiha/status/1733366158391218508

"Why do they hate us?"

https://www.saba.ye/en/news3287098.htm

Zitat

SANA'A December 09. 2023 (Saba) - The Yemeni armed forces announced on Saturday that they would prevent the passage of ships heading to the Zionist entity of any nationality, if they do not enter the Gaza Strip with the food and medicine they need.

The Yemeni Armed Forces explained in a statement issued today that, after its success in imposing its decision to prevent Israeli ships from navigating in the Red and Arab Seas, and as a result of the Zionist enemy’s continued commitment of horrific massacres, genocidal war, and siege against the brothers in Gaza, they announce a ban on the passage of ships heading to the Zionist entity of any nationality, it will become a legitimate target for it if the food and medicine it needs does not enter the Gaza Strip.

It warned all ships and companies against dealing with Israeli ports in order to ensure the safety of maritime navigation, stressing its full concern for the continuation of global trade movement through the Red and Arab seas for all ships and countries except for ships linked to Israel or that will transport goods to Israeli ports.

The Yemeni Armed Forces also confirmed that they will implement this decision from the moment this statement is announced.

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Derweil:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news…ry-action-against-houthis

Zitat

US In Talks With Gulf Allies on Military Action Against Houthis

The US has been consulting with Gulf allies about potential military action against Yemen’s Iran-backed Houthi rebels in response to their increasingly brazen attacks on ships in the Red Sea, according to several people with knowledge of the discussions.

The talks are at a preliminary stage and both the US and partners still favor diplomacy over direct confrontation, said the people, who asked not to be identified due to the sensitivity of the matter. That said, the fact the discussions are taking place at all underscores how seriously the US takes the threat, the people added.

Der Artikel stellt nicht wirklich klar, ob das auf Interesse stößt, tatsächlich werden ein paar Zweifel aufgeworfen.

Zitat von Hohli

Ich hab den Artikel nicht gelesen. Aber solche Aktionen, also noch mehr Gewalt benutzen, führen in der Regel zu einer Radikalisierung der Gruppen, die man bekämpfen will. Wenn die Familie und die Freunde zerbombt werden, dann wird dadurch nur noch mehr Hass geschürt.

Zitat von Wemir

Ich muss sagen, ich bin doch froh, dass wir aktuell nicht im Sicherheitsrat sitzen.

Du und Paul Ronzheimer:

Zitat von Wemir

https://www.thedailybeast.com/…r-linked-to-aetna-and-cvs

Ich muss zugeben, ich dachte er wäre ein Arzt mit alternativen medizinischen Auffassungen.

Zitat von The Daily Beast

“Vaccine skepticism kills people. So having the founder of a health-care company associated with a movement that kills people raises some serious questions,” says Dr. Robert Field, a professor of health management and policy at Drexel University.[...]

David became the company’s “chief science advisor.” He holds a PhD in computer science from Bar-Ilhan University in Israel, according to his website. One of his doctoral advisers was Nathan Netanyahu, a computer scientist who is the cousin of Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu.[...]

Vielleicht ist er einfach nur sehr angetant von Bewegungen, die Menschen töten.

Zitat von JonnyMadFox

Ich hab den Artikel nicht gelesen. Aber solche Aktionen, also noch mehr Gewalt benutzen, führen in der Regel zu einer Radikalisierung der Gruppen, die man bekämpfen will. Wenn die Familie und die Freunde zerbombt werden, dann wird dadurch nur noch mehr Hass geschürt.

Nun, es ist nicht zwangsläufig das Ziel, Hamas zu zerstören. Jenseits von Rache, scheint mir, dass die Israelis einerseits die Chance nutzen wollen Bedingungen für eine ethnische Säuberung zu schaffen vielleicht hoffen sie auch auf möglichst umfangreiche direkte Schädigung der Zivilbevölkerung von Gasa, und andererseits soll die Abschreckungswirkung der israelischen Streitkräfte wiederhergestellt werden, die nach dem Angriff der palästinensischen Gruppen als stark beschädigt gilt. Das wird durch solche Äußerungen deutlich:

https://twitter.com/IsraeliPM/status/1732796257637220426

Zitat von WUtan Clan

Du und Paul Ronzheimer:

Verdammte antideutsche Nationalisten.

https://twitter.com/HananyaNaf…tatus/1733185471172210728

Bei einem Einwanderungsland eine merkwürdige Aussage.

https://cadmus.eui.eu/bitstrea…_GLOBALCIT_CR_2018_02.pdf

Zitat

Country Report 2018/02 - June 2018

Report On Citizenship Law: Israel

Zitat von S. 9-10

Dual citizenship

A remarkably large percentage of Israel’s population holds dual nationality, resulting from a combination of high-volume immigration and permissive citizenship laws. [...]

[...]

In recent decades, the number of Israelis who hold dual citizenship has grown rapidly. Many dual citizens are first-generation or second-generation immigrants. [...] The total number of dual citizens in Israel (with all countries) can be estimated at between 800,000 and 900,000 - about 10% of the country’s population (Harpaz 2013, 2018; Harpaz m.s.).

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Vergleich:

https://www.destatis.de/DE/The…staatsangehoerigkeit.html

Zitat

Migration und Integration | Bevölkerung in Privathaushalten nach Migrationshintergrund und doppelter Staatsangehörigkeit

2738 M / 83103 M ~ 3.3%

Also ich bezweifle, dass es da enorme Unterschiede zwischen Israelis und Palästinensern in dieser Haltung gibt, inklusive dass auch von letzteren viele umgekehrt glauben, die Israelis könnten ja einfach weggehen.

Dieser Bericht erwähnt noch ein interessantes Stigma gegen Emigration, das mal bestand:

Zitat von S. 10

Just as the cornerstone of Zionism is Aliyah - Jewish immigration to Israel - so is emigration from Israel anathema to Zionist ideals and values. Whereas Aliyah literally means ascent, the word for emigration - Yeridah - means descent. Traditionally, harsh condemnation was reserved for those Israelis who decided to find their fortune overseas (yordim), and they were considered as ‘weaklings’ and ‘defectors’. In recent years, there is a much more relaxed attitude toward emigration (Cohen 2007). [...]

Zitat von Wemir

Bei einem Einwanderungsland eine merkwürdige Aussage.

Zumal dann, wenn man Israel als Staat des "jüdischen Volkes" betrachtet, während alleine in den USA mittlerweile mehr jüdische Bevölkerung lebt als im heiligen Land, die dort wesentlich sicherer davor ist, von religiösen Fanatikern mit Raketen beschossen oder zu hunderten in ihren eigenen Häusern massakriert zu werden.

Zitat von Wemir

Also ich bezweifle, dass es da enorme Unterschiede zwischen Israelis und Palästinensern in dieser Haltung gibt, inklusive dass auch von letzteren viele umgekehrt glauben, die Israelis könnten ja einfach weggehen.

Was der stramme IDF-Samson aus der KI da so verzweifelt und gleichsam heldenhaft umklammert hält, reicht jedenfalls vom Fluss bis zum Meer und schert sich nicht darum, dass auf diesem Territorium auch noch andere Leute leben.

Chris Hedges "The Genocide in Gaza"

Zitat von Wemir

Habe es jetzt noch nicht bestätigt gefunden, aber ein Neffe von Eisenkot soll auch in Gasa gestorben sein:

https://english.almayadeen.net…lled-in-gaza-in-staged-tu

Scheint jetzt wirklich offiziell zu sein:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/…ter-eisenkots-son-killed/

Zitat

The Israel Defense Forces announced Saturday the death in combat in Gaza of the nephew of former IDF chief of staff and current war cabinet observer minister Gadi Eisenkot, shortly after Eisenkot lost his son in the Strip.

Sgt. Maor Cohen Eisenkot, 19, of the Golani Brigade’s 12th Battalion, from Eilat, was killed by an explosive alongside Staff Sgt. Jonathan Dean Jr Haim, 25, during a raid inside a mosque in Khan Younis Friday.

The IDF said the explosive device was detonated near the forces, and that troops directed an attack helicopter to strike Hamas gunmen on the roof of the mosque, a number of others who came out of a tunnel, and more gunmen identified in the area.

Also die Golani-Brigade ist wohl reguläre Infanterie aber hochdekoriert. Sergeant ist kein hoher Rang.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Defense_Forces_ranks

Zitat

[...] In the IDF enlisted ranks are earned by means of time in service (pazam), rather than by a particular post or assignment. [...] after 18 to 20 months [the conscript is] promoted to samal, [=Sergeant] [...]

War ein interessanter Zeitverzug zwischen den Medienberichten und der offiziellen Bestätigung.

Ganze 100 Leute. Die tun mir wirklich leid.

Israel Is Losing this War

Despite the violence it has unleashed on Palestinians, Israel is failing to achieve its political goals.

Zitat von Tony Karon & Daniel Levy - The Nation, 08.12.23

[...] The Vietnamese leadership measured the impact of its military actions by their political effects rather than by conventional military measures such as men and materiel lost or territory gained. Thus Henry Kissinger’s 1969 lament: “We fought a military war; our opponents fought a political one. We sought physical attrition; our opponents aimed for our psychological exhaustion. In the process we lost sight of one of the cardinal maxims of guerrilla war: The guerrilla wins if he does not lose. The conventional army loses if it does not win.” [...]

Twenty years ago, former Knesset Speaker Avrum Burg warned of the inevitability of violent backlash. “It turns out that the 2,000-year struggle for Jewish survival comes down to a state of settlements, run by an amoral clique of corrupt lawbreakers who are deaf both to their citizens and to their enemies. A state lacking justice cannot survive,” he wrote in The International Herald Tribune.

Even if the Arabs lower their heads and swallow their shame and anger forever, it won’t work. A structure built on human callousness will inevitably collapse in on itself.… Israel, having ceased to care about the children of the Palestinians, should not be surprised when they come washed in hatred and blow themselves up in the centers of Israeli escapism.

Israel could kill 1,000 Hamas men a day and solve nothing, Burg warned, because Israel’s own violent actions would be the source of a replenishing of their ranks. His warnings have been ignored, even as they’ve been vindicated many times over. That same logic is now playing out on steroids in the destruction being visited on Gaza. The grinding structural violence Israel expected Palestinians to suffer in silence meant that Israeli security was always illusory. [...]

Hamas has a pan-Palestinian perspective, not a Gaza-specific one, and so it intended October 7 to have transformative effects across Palestine. During the 2021 “Unity Intifada” that sought to connect the struggles of Palestinians in both the West Bank and Gaza with those inside Israel, Hamas took actions in support of that goal. Now, the Israeli state is accelerating that connection with a paranoid campaign of repression against any expression of dissent from among its Palestinian citizens. Hundreds of Palestinians in the West Bank have been detained, including activists and teens posting on Facebook. Israel is all too aware of the potential for escalation in the West Bank. In that sense, the Israeli response has only brought the people of the West Bank and Gaza closer.[...]

Yoking itself to Israel’s response to October 7 has also burst the bubble on US fantasies of reclaiming hegemony in the Global South under a “we’re the good guys” rubric. The contrast between its response to Russia-Ukraine and Israel-Palestinian crises respectively has produced a consensus that there is hypocrisy at the very heart of US foreign policy, producing such extraordinary spectacles as Biden being castigated, face-to-face at an APEC Summit, by Malaysian Prime Minister Anwar Ibrahim for his failure to stand up against Israel’s atrocities

Ibrahim specifically warned that Biden’s response to Gaza had raised a serious trust deficit with those the United States hopes to court as allies in its competition with Russia and China. Having demonstrated to Arab allies that their Washington patron will side with Israel, even when it is bombing Arab civilians, will likely reinforce the trend of Global South states diversifying their geopolitical portfolios.[...]

Western politicians and media like to fantasize that Hamas is an ISIS-style nihilistic cadre holding Palestinian society hostage; Hamas is, in fact, a multifaceted political movement rooted in the fabric and national aspirations of Palestinian society. It embodies a belief, grimly affirmed by decades of Palestinian experience, that armed resistance is central to the Palestinian liberation project because of the failures of the Oslo process and the intractable hostility of its adversary. And its influence and popularity have grown as Israel and its allies keep thwarting a peace process and other nonviolent strategies for pursuing Palestinian liberation.

Israel’s campaign will leave Hamas’s military capacity diminished. But even if it were to kill the organization’s top leaders (as it has done previously), Israel’s response to October 7 is affirming Hamas’s message and its standing among Palestinians across the region and beyond. Large protests in Jordan with pro-Hamas chants, for instance, are unprecedented. It requires no approval or support of the Hamas actions of October 7 to acknowledge the enduring appeal of a movement that seems capable of making Israel pay some kind of a price for the violence it visits upon Palestinians every day, every year, generation after generation.[...]

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State Department Bypasses Congress to Approve Israel’s Order for Tank Ammunition

It is the first time the Biden administration has declared an emergency to expedite arms shipments to the Middle East, which are controversial because of the civilian death toll from Israeli airstrikes.

Zitat von The New York Times - 09.12.23

The State Department is pushing through a government sale to Israel of 13,000 rounds of tank ammunition, bypassing a congressional review process that is generally required for arms sales to foreign nations, according to a State Department official and an online post by the Defense Department on Saturday.

The State Department notified congressional committees at 11 p.m. on Friday that it was moving ahead with the sale, valued at more than $106 million, even though Congress had not finished an informal review of a larger order from Israel for tank rounds.

The department invoked an emergency provision in the Arms Export Control Act, the State Department official and a congressional official told The New York Times. Both spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivities over the sales. The arms shipment has been put on an expedited track, and Congress has no power to stop it.[...]

The sale is certain to infuriate Arab leaders, who have sharply criticized the Biden administration’s efforts to block international attempts, including in the United Nations, to pressure Israel for an immediate long-term cease-fire.

“The combination of the United States’ veto of a cease-fire resolution in the U.N., and this expedited provision of lethal arms to Israel, should cause some serious consideration of whether the secretary’s repeated assertions that the U.S. seeks to minimize civilian casualties in Israel’s operation in Gaza are sincere,” said Josh Paul, a former State Department official who worked on arms sales, referring to Mr. Blinken. (Mr. Paul resigned from the agency in October over U.S. weapons aid to Israel for its use in the Gaza war.)

The 13,000 rounds are one tranche of a larger order from Israel of 45,000 rounds of ammunition for Merkava tanks that the State Department aims to approve, but that is under informal review by two congressional committees that have oversight of arms sales, congressional officials said. The total order is valued at more than $500 million. The New York Times and Reuters reported Friday on the order from Israel.[...]

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Denke mal Genocide Joe wird haften bleiben.

https://www.tiktok.com/@mattlieb/video/7309539709217180959

Die jemenitischen Aktionen sind wohl zumindestens ein bisschen schmerzhaft:

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/1…rning-intl-hnk/index.html

Zitat

Israel ready to act against Houthi rebels if international community fails to, national security adviser says

CNN — Israel is prepared to act against efforts by Houthi rebels in Yemen to disrupt shipping in the Red Sea if the international community fails to do so, Israeli National Security Adviser Tzachi Hanegbi said Saturday.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu had spoken with US President Joe Biden as well as European leaders about Houthis targeting merchant ships with alleged Israeli links, Hanegbi told Israel’s Channel 12.

“Israel is giving the world some time to organize in order to prevent this but if there isn’t to be a global arrangement, because it is a global issue, we will act in order to remove this naval siege,” Hanegbi said.

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Freilich kommt mir das eher wie eine leere Drohung vor. Also ich denke nicht, dass sie wirklich die Mittel haben, das zu unterbinden.